Yonezu x wowaka(Hitorie) MUSICA Interview
Yonezu Kenshi and wowaka - Through 2009~2011, a span of about 2 years, they went under the name “Hachi” and “wowaka” as VOCALOID producers, dominating a vast amount of impact and overwhelming popularity. And they didn’t stop there, now they’re challenging the next stage by singing and creating their own music by themselves.
Surely there are a lot of people, who held the talks of these two in their hearts. And actually, when I announced on Twitter that I had done this interview, the reaction was amazing. I myself had wanted to do this for a long time I just was waiting for the opportunity; so I thought that “now” was the time.
Yonezu Kenshi is welcoming and accepting other people, from his marvelous second album “YANKEE”, to his long-awaited first live show, and now to his his newly released song “Flowerwall”. wowaka, who has formed Hitorie, is cracking open his shell, through live shows he’s exposing himself in his music, learning how to put it all together, and at the end of the line they have drastically improved the way they make music, now they’ve released the album that’s their true first album, “WONDER and WONDER”.
In other words, Yonezu Kenshi and wowaka have newly found out who they want to be as artists, so I thought this was the perfect time for them to sit down and talk to each other. The second generation of Vocaloid that wowaka and Hachi (Yonezu) represent, is different from the first generation full of characters, and different from the third generation full of entertainment.
It’s a generation that brought out countless artists who desired to express themselves, who could drain that self-expression into an alternative rock band sound of music.
That’s exactly why, I think it was inevitable that wowaka and Yonezu ended up choosing to sing their own music. Of irreplaceable rivals who hold each other as sworn friends, this is the long-awaited interview that talks about what they have done from then until now, please give it a read.
wowaka: “I’m surprised by how long it’s been.”
Yonezu: “Well we haven’t seen each other for about two years.”
Yet, you used to go to events together, so you would see each other a lot.
Yonezu: “But probably, to say we saw each other a lot is misleading. A normal person would say that we didn’t see each other that much.”
wowaka: “Hahahaha, that’s true. But we did open a stand together at one event, and such.”
Didn’t you do a panel discussion together also?
wowaka: “We did do that (laughing).”
Yonezu: “It feels like so long ago (laughing).”
wowaka: “Wasn’t it like 4 years ago?”
I think you two did it for the release of “diorama”, so probably about less than 3 years ago?
wowaka: “That’s right, we had done an event at ‘Loft Plus One’ (laughing).”
- When did you two meet, what was it like?
wowaka: “We had both started posting our songs on Nico Douga in 2009. So probably around that time.”
Yonezu: “Yeah, right around then.”
wowaka: “When you’re uploading your own songs, you start to get curious as to what other people are posting. So as I was listening, I started to get conscious of how other people were writing really good songs, getting crazy amounts of hits. That was around the time of “WORLD’S END UMBRELLA” and “Qualia”, so like the summer of 2009. But, it wasn’t until afterwards that we actually got in contact?”
Yonezu: “That’s right. I’m pretty sure that we got together at ‘THE VOC@LOID M@STER’ in the beginning of that next year. We had chatted on Twitter before but, that was the first time we met.”
When did you first learn of wowaka, Yonezu?
Yonezu: “It was literally the exact same time for me too. It was around that summer when ‘Two-Faced Lovers’ was gaining an amazing amount of hits. The fact that such amazing people were around was becoming a big deal. It was around the same time that we both started getting a lot of hits, wasn’t it? I think wowaka-san was a bit faster than me but.”
wowaka: “Hachi-kun was faster. I have a vivid memory of thinking ‘This guy pisses me off’ (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Hahahahahaha”
wowaka: “Because I was jealous (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Producers of the same time period as you, these colleagues really do get you crazy curious. Producers that came before you feel like a senpai and they’re amazing in they’re own way but, they don’t get you curious. wowaka-san is a raw colleague so there was a lot of influence between us, or, he was provocative to me.”
wowaka: “Well, just from listening I would get the sense that Hachi-kun was thinking about me as he wrote his songs, And vise-versa. Also always from the absolute first time I listened to them, I’ve thought that his melodies are just so good. They’re crazy catchy but there’s also a uniqueness to them or, just by listening to the melody for 5 seconds you could tell that it’s his song. That’s always left an impression on me. I genuinely felt that there’s an amazing person out there. I have trouble writing melodies. So he played a huge role in making me conscious of that.”
Yonezu: “I think that the melodies of wowaka-san’s songs are really good. I’m someone who finds melodies to be the most important thing, I make my songs with an attitude of like a ‘melody-supremacist’. Yet the melodies of wowaka-san’s songs were like nothing I had heard before, it was like music that was way out of my capacity. ‘So there’s even stuff like this out there…’ I thought. His sense of rhythm is even special too… The first time I listened to his songs, they had such an impact on me that I felt like I was punched blam in the head.”
Was there any time when your songs influenced each other’s songs?
Yonezu: “There was a lot for me. For example, his sense of rhythm; wowaka-san has a lot of really fast songs, doesn’t he. I had never heard such rhythms before, or such way of attaching lyrics to beats, so I would interpret it in my own way, and ponder as to how I could counter it. Especially ‘World’s End Dancehall’ had-“
wowaka: “I feel I’ve just been praised incredibly (laughing).”
Yonezu: “That had enough impact that it overthrew me. Even though we’re allies, it felt like you were a virtual enemy standing in the middle of the road stopping me, it made me think I don’t wanna lose. I have memories of spending days and nights thinking until my brain fried, as to how it’s possible to even make such a song.”
wowaka: “I have them too. Hachi-kun was the one who made me realize how important it is to make the melody and the words work together. (Hachi-kun was the one who gave birth to my consciousness, on how to take care of melody and the words together.)”
My image of the NicoNico Douga Vocaloid culture back then was, that there was various individual creators influencing and pushing each other, so much that it led to music evolving as a whole, but..?
wowaka: “I think that’s really exactly it. It felt like everyone was close and we had a relationship, but at the same time, it was sort of creepy that we couldn’t see each other’s faces (laughing). There was this sort of exquisite sense of distance among the whole fandom. That’s just why you would get conscious of it, why it sort of seemed like we were meddling with underground music. Off the back of that, there were people getting a lot of hits and there were others getting conscious of it too…. Thinking about it now, that whole scene was amazing back then, huh (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Different people were doing different things as they pleased, and we all naturally converged into one place, it was that sort of atmosphere. I remember it as a really fun time.”
wowaka: “It was fun. Really fun.”
Yonezu: “Fufufufufufu”
It’s true that when Yonezu and wowaka were around in 2009 to 2011, it was special. It was different from how it felt before, or even after.
wowaka: “Ah, I really think that too.”
From my perspective, I was surprised by how the Vocaloid fandom was able to take expressions in from the typical rock context, and bring them out in a more sharp and thick form. Yonezuandwowaka’s time was full of people who were bringing their forms of expressions to the table through the music called Vocaloid. That’s just why this much interesting talent had surfaced. It became a breeding ground for abnormally creative music. That’s what I feel.
wowaka: “Well, people were flooding in because of the culture that the prior generation had made, so halfway through 2009 was when a bunch of interesting people were popping up. I really think that was some kind of miracle.”
Yonezu: “That’s right. I think that too.”
So, then you and other creators came together under the independent label ‘balloom’. If you two think of each other as rivals, how did it come to you two working as allies there?
Yonezu: “I actually don’t know much about how balloom started…”
- Is that so?
Yonezu: “Furukawa Honpo had asked me if I wanted to join in, because wowaka-san was there. The reason I signed on with balloom was actually because those two were there. To me, it was just that people I liked were there. So, I didn’t think too much about it.
wowaka: “I probably know more than Hachi-kun. On what I said before, I felt that balloom was something that brought all the events from 2009 together, in a thick and concise way. I felt happy that I could be a part of that. My album was balloom’s very first release-“
‘Unhappy Refrain’ right.
wowaka: “Yes. I remember that when I was making it, I was thinking about how happy I was, just be able to make something that was going to be released all over the country.”
Between Furukawa Honpo and Nanou, balloom has since graduated from Vocaloid and gotten a lot of artists who make new original music though.
Yonezu: “How did that happen, anyway?”
wowaka: “I think it just started to happen naturally, everyone going off to do their own thing… In the end, maybe everyone was just really too assertive of themselves (laughing). I think there were so many people that were pains to deal with.”
So when you got together to do panel discussions and such, did it feel like just annoying people were saying annoying things?
Yonezu: “I think that was a pain in itself (laughing). At the after-parties, everyone would be having fun, yet by halfway through there would often be two people fighting for the rest of the time (laughing).”
wowaka: “I remember having a drink and falling asleep (laughing).”
Yonezu: “But, it’s like we were fighting in the same ring or- It’s not as if we were flocks of the same feather but, we all had felt as if it was that way. We all have our different means of music but, we all came together as this cult called Vocaloid. …Thinking back, it was really appealing wasn’t it.”
wowaka: “Surely because of all the people of that moment, did it become that sort of place. I seriously do think that it was the meeting of a miracle.”
So then on May 2011, under said balloom, you wowaka released ’Unhappy Refrain’, and exactly a year after that on May 2012, Yonezu released ‘diorama’. Both of those got ranked 6th on the Oricon Weekly Rankings. I think that this was an amazing moment. You emerged from the internet with your own strength, and from a label that started from an independent gathering, you had such a large impact on Japan’s music scene. I was excited that something new had just begun but, how did the people in question actually feel?
Yonezu: “Though, it didn’t feel as if I was doing anything new. I really was just doing it because it was interesting. I jumped into Vocaloid because I thought “It’s fun here!”, I was just sort of going “This is fun, this is fun.”, until I suddenly got there. That’s how I felt.”
wowaka: “It’s not as if the road just naturally continued on that way, it felt like that place was just a part of what we were doing, and the place it reached was just our album releases. That’s why I don’t feel as if I was thinking ‘Let’s do something new’ or anything either.“
Then, did it feel as if it was the product of all your passion for pure fun and impulse?
Yonezu: “I think so.“
wowaka: “Forget as to whether it was new or not, I thought it was really fun that interesting people were putting all these things together. Maybe that part itself felt as if it had a newness to it.”
Yonezu: “But I think that what wowaka-san left behind has had such an impact that it’s immeasurable. Of course in the current Vocaloid world too but, I think that the ‘wowaka essence’ is definitely always lurking around somewhere. That is amazing.”
Your lyrics to your melodies to your sense of rhythm are like an invention. It’s true, that the shape of music changed after you.
Yonezu: “That’s why Hitorie is called out for sounding like Vocaloid too, isn’t it. Whenever I hear that I think ‘It’s the opposite, it’s the opposite!’. There really is a feel that wowaka-san is the one who created Vocaloid.”
wowaka: “… This is embarrassing ssu (laughing). Thank you. But on the topic of impact, isn’t Hachi-kun way stronger.”
Yonezu: “No no no, your ratio is absolutely bigger than mine, if you think about who impacted Vocaloid.”
wowaka: “No, Hachi-kun was amazing too?”
…What the hell is this (laughing).
wowaka and Yonezu: “Hahahahahaha.”
So after all that, now you two are both starting to sing your own songs with your own voice, at the same time as each other. Yonezu released ‘diorama’ in May 2011 but, I hear that this is because ‘diorama’ took about 2 years to produce-.
wowaka: “What, you spent 2 whole years working?!”
Yonezu: “Yes (laughing). But it was only that I had been hypothesizing designs for a diorama for 2 years, it’s not as if I spent 2 years actually working on it. I was considering a lot as I was making it, and it ended up taking longer. “
wowaka: “I see (laughing). “
Then 2012was when wowaka formed Hitorie and started to have live shows.
wowaka: “That’s right. I brought it up near the end of 2011, and I think the first time we had a show was in the January of 2012. “
Yonezu: “I’ve actually been in a band with Hitorie’s drummer Yumao and bassist ygarshy, it was for literally one second but. “
What, is that true?
wowaka: “That was around the beginning of 2011, wasn’t it.“
Why did you start a band?
Yonezu: “There was an event going on so they invited me. When I said that even if I went up on stage I’d have no idea what to do, they said ‘Then why don’t we make a band together?’. So I was introduced to those guys, and we did our one time show.“
Why did you end it after one?
Yonezu: “Well, we originally were only a band for that event, and once the event was over then we were over.”
wowaka: “That was one mystery of an event wasn’t it.”
Yonezu: "Really, that event was a disaster for me. …. I think that I might have even picked up my fear of live shows from it.
wowaka: “Well, you did feel daunted by it, and talked about how ‘I didn’t have any fun’ so (laughing).”
Yonezu: “That just couldn’t be helped. I didn’t even know how to be in a band, and we were supposed to get together and jump on stage in front of 2000 people right off the bat. What was I supposed to do.”
Ahh, that definitely sounds like a difficult situation to be in. Did wowaka appear in that event too?
wowaka: “I didn’t but, there was a rehearsal for that Hachiband. I went there as a member of the audience to hang out. That’s where I first met ygarshy. I had known Yumao already but. I saw what they were capable of from that rehearsal, and that might have been a big piece towards forming Hitorie.”
So a fateful encounter like that happened, huh.
Do you think the fact that both of you are advancing to the next stage simultaneously, is also because you’re synchronized in some way?
wowaka: “But, I do remember going out for a drink with Hachi-kun somewhere in Akihabara… I don’t remember us specifically saying that we both want to sing but, we did talk about how we both wanted to do something like this.”
Yonezu: “That’s right, I definitely have a feeling that we talked about that.”
wowaka: “Is that when I learned that you were working on diorama? When did I find out, anyway?”
Yonezu: “You came over to where I live once, didn’t you.”
wowaka: “Ah, I did I did.”
Yonezu: “I remember that we talked about it then. I remember saying ‘I have about 5 songs finished’.”
wowaka: “Right. I released Unhappy, and after that I completely became an empty shell, there was a time back there when I was useless for about 3~4 months. During that time I savagely contemplated, wracked my brain, and in the end I decided that ‘Alright, I’m gonna sing and perform myself! I’m gonna make a band which will do live shows!.’ Still, the reason I reached that conclusion, I think, is because I had Hachi-kun to talk to when I was depressed. You absolutely made me concious.”
Yonezu: “I remember that when I first heard that wowaka-san was going to do a band, I was really happy.”
Why is that?
Yonezu: “Because I too have admired bands. I may not be a band in form but, spiritually I do mean to be doing the same thing. That’s why I think I felt happiness in knowing thatwowaka-san was thinking the same thing too.”
- Yonezu, you made diorama alone, then you started recording together with people, and now you’ve gone up the stairs further choosing to do even more live shows in the last year. On the other hand,
wowaka has suddenly thrown himself into doing live shows as a band.
wowaka: “The fact that I used to be in a band a long time ago is also part of it, but, because of what I had felt back then and, because of how I’ve always had an admiration for bands, did I think that this step of action was an absolute necessity for me. When you say that I threw myself in, well that’s really exactly it… For me, maybe the biggest reason I made a band was because I wanted to play live shows. I really wanted to play live shows. So, I couldn’t have done that alone.”
Did you two ever meet up after you took these next steps? Besides now.
wowaka: “…Only replying to each other on Twitter like every 3 months (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Yes (laughing). We would never meet up but, I was constantly curious as to ‘What’s he’s up to?’”
wowaka: “I‘m the one who’s constantly nonstop curious! I‘m always thinking “He definitely does make good songs, doesn’t he”.
Yonezu: “That’s already mutual.”
So you do get curious about each other like that.
wowaka: “Ughhh, I do!”
Yonezu: “We really do. We breathed in the same air at the same time, while looking at the same things, and we both reached here. I don’t think there’s anyone else quite like that for us.”
wowaka: “The fact that we both began with Vocaloid and are now singing with our own voices, for me there’s no one but Hachi-kun who can understand this. So honestly, I think I’m more conscious of him than anyone else in the world.”
Yonezu: “Of course that’s how it is, it’s the same me.”
Though I feel that this is a really healthy way for rival musicians to be, because you’re able to set off sparks in each other while still following your own path of music. It’s rare to meet a partner like that.
wowaka & Yonezu: “It is, isn’t it.“
When you look at Kenshi Yonezu’s work, and you look at Hitorie’s work, what do you think?
wowaka: “I’ve always thought ‘Do a live already.’ (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Yeah, he’s invited me to live shows often.”
wowaka: “I’m always telling him ’You have so so many good songs, I want to see them live’. Also, I bought ‘YANKEE’ and I listened to it, and I thought about how you’re able to make music with other people now and-“
Yonezu: “Hahahahahahahaha”
wowaka: “It’s definitely so much better than your ’diorama’ era work. I was so happy over that, but I did also feel a bit ashamed.”
Yonezu: “I said this before as well but, when wowaka-san first formed a band, back when they didn’t go by ‘Hitorie’ but by ‘Hitori-Atelier’, first off I felt jealous. Because wowaka-san was able to do what I had always wanted to do but was never able to. That’s why I was jealous and upset. While wowaka-san was able to gradually work his way up through live shows, I was the complete opposite. My approach was to make a recording, and then slowly take it from there. So in even just looking at the shapes of our works, I felt as if I was going in the opposite direction. Yet even so, thoughts such as ‘What’s wowaka-san doing?’ ‘How is Hitorie coming along?’ were always in my head, so I had a feeling somewhere that we would surely unite again one day. There was a part of me that was looking forward to when that would be.”
wowaka: “So today is pretty much our fated day, isn’t it.”
Yonezu: “It is, it is.”
wowaka: “I was insanely happy when this came up.”
Yonezu: “I was really happy too.”
Fufufu. Now Yonezu has released ‘YANKEE’ and also has performed a live show. While wowaka has become a true band with Hitorie and presented that to the world with their first full album. Is why I thought that this is the time to have this interview. If I were to borrow Yonezu’s words, you both took opposite approaches and climbed to the next level, and now is when you’ve both established your new selves.
wowaka: “That’s right. You did do a live show after all.”
Yonezu: “Yeah, and I am going to continue doing them after all.”
wowaka: “I’m truly glad that you did.”
Yonezu: “Once I did it, it was fun.”
On the day of your first show, after it ended Yonezu was exceedingly elated and overflowing with excitement, wasn't he
Yonezu: In that moment, I felt like I was exorcised of everything that was possessing me.
wowaka: “For whatever time was spent not doing live shows, you were burdened with other things. So, I absolutely think that when it ended, it all fell on top of you.”
In that sense, what did you,wowaka, feel when you first started doing live shows?
wowaka: “Singing my own music with my own voice, the audience reacting and moving their bodies for me, that was fun at an instinctive level. So, I always felt from the start that if I continued to properly face this challenge, that maybe then could I too feel the same amazing pleasure. There are still times when it doesn’t go well, because we’re a band of 4 people, after all. There’s times among us when one of us will say ‘I’m not having fun right now.’ but. Still, in retrospect, it really makes me think that I want to try to have more fun, that I want to feel good, more, even more. I feel that I’m always chasing after such.“
After taking your new steps, do you think that anything changed about the way you make music?
wowaka: “Mine certainly did. When I do live shows it happens just as I said: an instinctive enjoyment and my primal self come bursting out. As a person I tend to suppress myself in my daily life. Yet, in a live show I feel all thay weight taken off my shoulders. Enjoyment, and my primal self come out… It’s just that after that happens then, when I start making songs they start to come out different. So, for a while I couldn’t figure out if that was a good thing or not. There was one period where I became completely unable to make any song. Like, I started to hate everything I did.”
Yonezu: “I heard about that. I had thought that must have been such a disaster. “
wowaka: “It was a disaster. That said, I was able to discharge from that, and because I felt that way was I able to create the album that I did. The way I make songs has changed.”
- You’re making more songs that have a strong band feel to them and, more than anything, there’s more songs where a girl doesn’t appear. In other words, you’re not pushing it through a filter, it’s become music that is more direct with wowaka, that’s confronting the listeners and the rest of the
world. That transformation was really big.
wowaka: “It’s true that it’s being displayed as a transformation in my work. It was really big.”
Yonezu, what about you?
Yonezu: “I certainly had a transformation too. Just, for me it was more because I had a strong sense that I had to change.”
wowaka: “Hachi-kun, you’re always burdening a sense of responsibility, aren’t you.”
Yonezu: “Is that so? (laughing).”
wowaka: “After listening to you talk and reading magazines, I think that you impose a lot onto yourself (laughing).”
Yonezu: “I personally don’t see it as a sense of responsibility but, it’s more like I feel that I have to do these things or else, or I have a strong sense that there’s nothing else I can do. From a bunch of options, choosing one path and seeing what would happen, placing that all on my desk is how I think things out. Yet when I do that, there’s not even one option that I want to choose. Looking back at my past and the environments I was in, there’s countless roads that aren’t even left. That’s why, I had no choice but to do such, I had no choice but to change, I’ve always strongly felt that way. “
I’ve been watching from the start and, Yonezu, you have a lot of potential with music, I think someone like you could choose as many paths as you want. Even so, you do still think “I can only choose one”?
Yonezu: “It’s true that from another’s perspective it seems as if ‘You have this option too, you don’t only have one’ but, if you look at it through my eyes… The others are not there, definitely. I was raised like this. When I chose this, then this changes, so next time I’ll choose this and change it this way. That’s how I think-“
I see. So you understand your own reasoning huh.
Yonezu: “That’s right, there’s a reason, and from all my branching paths I have even made a decision tree. I really have faith in my tree of decisions, so, no matter what happens, I end up making the decision it tells me to.”
However, wouldn’t that mean that it’s not exactly a negative decision? Because you strive for that one decision with a positive will and faith.
Yonezu: “That’s true, it’s positive. The sense that if I’m going to live my strongest then, what decision do I have to make? And once I find what that is, then I feel like there’s nothing left for me but that. “
wowaka: “I think the fact that he’s able to balance those out, his ‘I have no choice stuff, and his ‘I’ll aggressively face it myself’ positive stuff, is in a way his talent. There’s parts of it that I don’t understand and it’s really mysterious to me, but… “
What is it like for you wowaka?
wowaka: “I, on the other hand, think about balance when I make my decisions. I base it on balancing out what I find fun, what I admire, and what the objective side is. That’s probably how I figure things out. That’s what I did when I was producing Vocaloid songs. …I feel like that’s probably what separates Hachi-kun and I. It’s the same when I listen to his work, and as I listen to his words now, I still think so. I feel that I’m keeping a balance.”
When I listen to both of your music, I feel that you do have a common ground though. That you both are taking your thoughts and your ways of life, then putting them into your songs with high-density. That you’re both the type of artists who feel as if you have to express yourself in them. What do you think about that?
wowaka: “I realized years ago, that whatever I feel completely shows up in my music. The rest of Hitorie often say it too. Like “You were in a bad mood then, so you made this sort of song huh. (laughing).”
Yonezu: “Hahahahaha.”
wowaka: “So I think about how that’s who I am as I make songs, that I’m alright like this. I did it with my last album [WONDER&WONDER], but I wasn’t consistent with it. The parts that I was trying to keep balanced, and the parts where my own self would selfishly come out, were clashing. It was bothering me. Yet, since I finished that album and tour, now I’m in a situation where I’ve learned how to do this well, I feel.”
Yonezu: “Me too, I really think, that no matter what, I seem to put something like my sins into my songs. Yet recently, while I’m writing, I’ve been trying my best to erase my karma and personal thoughts, I’ve been really thinking about how to make universal pop music, that could become anyone’s song, but still, it’s not going well no matter what I do… No matter what I do there’s parts where my mood and my personality seem to get on board. That goes for the parts that I’m aware of, and for the parts that I’m not; it’s probably coming from my deep roots. Yet, for everything you lose, you gain, and I think that such is a blessing.. Yet I also think that it is karma, for me too.”
wowaka: “Still, I think there’s surely an element of excitement to be had, in the fact that our karma always pops up. I think that our listeners think so, at least.“
Yonezu: “Still, recently, on one hand, I think that ‘I must change’, but on the other hand, I think that I might always be this way, at the roots. To now, from even before I did Vocaloid, from when I made songs in middle school, I’ve still been the same person at the roots. I was changing for a while but, recently I feel like the songs I’ve been writing are coming out like the songs I made in middle school. I’m still not sure what changed my state of mind but.
Is it something like innocence? Or are you completely in the same state of mind as that time?”
Yonezu: “I think it might be innocence. I used to nonchalantly write music, I really was writing for nothing but the amusement, so they were completely untwisted innocent songs. Hence recently I’ve been able to make songs like that again.”
Were you released from something?
Yonezu: “Maybe that’s it. Before I had a theory in my head that ‘If I do this it will turn out like this, if I do that it’ll be like this.’, and I was loyal to it, but then I thought that maybe I should just forget about it for once. To not think too hard and say ‘This feels good, so isn’t this fine?’. Why not! I’ve been doing that recently and I’m happy with it. “
wowaka: “Actually, I also felt that last year, that I should just feel happy as I create. Wouldn’t that be good for me, I realized (laughing). So I really really understand what Hachi-kun feels… I think that everyone who writes music has the tendency to make theories in their head and stick to them. Your way of creating music definitely starts changing, as you become able to do more things, and when the people around you and your relationships change. So as the result of the change, does your core self show it’s true colors. I went through such a transformation last year when I was making my album [WONDER&WONDER]. So, for me, now that I’ve gotten through another tour, I’ve been changing since then. Now I’m in the ‘I’ll do whatever feels good’ mode, and at the same time I’m in the mode where I want to try constructing new things. I think it will be interesting this way. The fact that I’ve been able to properly show off my interesting traits, is a turning point for me as a living person, and as a musician.”
Yonezu: “I see… wowaka is there any times where you hate your band?”
wowaka: “There is. There completely is (laughing).
Yonezu: “What do you do when that happens?”
wowaka: “Hmmm, most of the time I have a drink. I have a drink and put myself into a helpless state, I sacrifice the next day to do nothing but laze around, I take a bath and I sleep once again. After that it’s usually all better (laughing).”
This may be a weird way to say but, it’s pretty important in a band to enjoy the painful moments.
wowaka: “Ahh, that’s true, I do think that.“
Yonezu: “For four people to steer themselves in the same direction and to hold an equal relationship amongst each other: it’s quite the ordeal, isn’t it. If you couldn’t do that then you would’ve been doing your work alone, after all. All the bands in the world are like this, but still, I really respect that.”
wowaka: “It can feel like a hassle, though. However, in producing, and creating one product together, while using live shows as an output, there’s absolutely moments when even considering the hassle, I can love it. And I know that this moment is going to come, so I don’t even pray for it, I just continue. Hachi-kun is now arranging by himself, and you’re having other people play your songs for you, right? Do you make a finished demo for them?”
Yonezu: “Yes, first I make a finished demo that I can agree with, then I throw that at them and they play it for me. Also recently I’ve been starting to permit more things with them.”
wowaka: “With the playing and such?”
Yonezu: “Yeah. It’s because I started to think, ’Let me tolerate’“.
wowaka: “This isn’t exactly the same as your decision talk from earlier but, you’ve chosen the path of “tolerating” haven’t you.”
Yonezu: “It’s surely because I decided ‘I want to tolerate things’ that I’m tolerating it but. If this was the me as from when I wrote diorama, I think I would have said ‘I’ll do it myself!’, Or have blurted ‘Why can’t you do this like the demo?’ at them (laughing). However, recently I haven’t been doing that as much. My partners do respect the demo, after all. I’m happy about that. Of course I will say ‘You have to play it like this here’ on the important parts, there’s still that but, my permitted grounds are becoming much more open… I may be becoming more free recently. “
When you do that, do you think that your music becomes more open, or deeper?”
Yonezu: “I think so. If it was just me playing there would be so much that I wouldn’t be able to do. I can’t do it alone, so I need other people, and I have to tolerate them. It might be obvious out of the obvious but, forme I never had that obviousness, I was a human who had always rejected it, so at this late stage in life I’m understanding it fresh. Surely this is something that normal people experience the first time they’re in a band, in middle or high school, but I feel like I’m experiencing it for the first time now.”
wowaka: “I’m the same with that. Since last year when I was unable to write anything, the way I write has changed immensely. I came to realize the greatness in everyone else’s originality. I’ve started to pick up and use what the other members write… Especially because last year I hated myself, so I did have no choice but to pick up what they displayed for me (laughing). As a result, I was able to get closer with them, as a band. The moment we finished our album [WONDER and WONDER], I finally felt ‘So this it what it means to make something together…!’, I was reborn.“
Like someone’s music is in there, besides your own.
wowaka: “That’s it, Hitorie started as something that was going to just play my phrases for me. Yet, after getting through those turmoils of last year, we’re able to write songs together now. I realized that it’s much better this way. That was a really big experience for me.“
Nevertheless, both are you are weirdly synchronized again.
Yonezu: “Seriously, even since before,wowaka and I have always weirdly synchronized like this. We have entered the same phases at the same time before too, but… There was also one time when wowaka took out his wallet for something, and it turned out he had the same wallet as me (laughing).
wowaka: Hahahahaha, that seriously surprised me! Hachi-kun’s was the flap wallet and mine was the zip wallet but, they were the same design. Also, actually the shoes Hachi-kun is wearing today…”
Yonezu: “What, don’t tell me…”
wowaka: “I have the same ones in a different color.“
Yonezu: “Are you for real!?”
Hahaha, are you sure you’re not lovers from another life? It might be a bit unnatural for people to synchronize this much (laughing)
wowaka and Yonezu: “(Hysterical laughing).”
For my last question I’m going to ask something a bit abstract. How do both of you think you’re going to be sending your music out to the world going forwards?
wowaka: “Even though I’m on the premise of pop music, I’m always striving to be a counter.”
A counter to what?
wowaka: “…To popular people and such? (Laughing). I think it’s probably part of being human but, it’s still definitely a part of me. To get people involved, to get weak people involved, and to together find happiness, I aim to make the sort of music that can do just that. I’m always conscious of that, and even when I’m not conscious, I think it’s absolutely a part of the way I think.“
Yonezu: “The way I make music as a counter, is probably in that sense more weak than wowaka’s but. Just, to me the ultimate proposition, or if you ask me what I do the most is… If I seriously say this straightforward, it is that I want to help the weak or. To make a long story short, I think it may just be that. To say that I want to guide them may be a bad choice of words but… If someone were to compare themselves before and after they listened to my music, I would say that I want them to grow from it, even if just a bit. If the people who listen are to become able to choose just the optimistic way out of all of their life choices, I’d be happy, I feel like I think about that as I write.”
Music can be a heart’s salvation, For people who feel weak and pain and solitude, it can be an escape, it can be like a soft hug, it can be the encouragement that gives you a push on the back, it’s such an existence. I feel such from Yonezu and Hitorie’s current music, and I strongly felt that when I met the music of the Vocaloid producers Hachi and wowaka. The rock bands of this country are supported because of their earnest expression, people will like something when it’s born from instincts. Yet I realized that true communication wasn’t really in the popular band scene back then, it was in the Vocaloid scene. At the time that had a strong impact on me.
Yonezu: “Fufufu. Though Niconico Douga is a place for weak people to come together after all.”
wowaka: “This is true (laughing).”
That really is true. But now since you two have now gotten more sublimated, does the Niconico culture of that time, and the Vocaloid scene, change it’s shape, I wonder.”
wowaka: “Ahh, I think it may.“
Today was extremely enjoyable for me. How was it for you two, talking for the first time in a while?
Yonezu: “I had a lot of fun.”
wowaka: “Me too. I think Hachi-kun and I will be like this for the rest of our lives, surely. Because no matter when, Hachi-kun is definitely always at least at the very corners of my conscious. Im really happy that I have someone like that for me.”
Yonezu: “I completely feel the same way too.”
I kind of want to do an interview like this once every few years.
Yonezu: “Oh, that sounds good.”
wowaka: “How much were we on each other’s mind in that time?, or, we can ask questions like that (laughing). Though seriously, I want to do this again. We don’t seem to ask to hang out by ourselves, after all (laughing).”
Yonezu: “We don’t we don’t. We’ll talk on Twitter and say ‘Let’s go out for a drink’, but that seems to be as far as we get.”
wowaka: “That happens a lot (laughing).”
I’ll set it up, so until then!
wowaka and Yonezu: “Please!”