LUCKAND Interview
What is artwork that can’t be put into words?
wowaka (Hitorie musician) x Tetsuya Nagato (Art director/Artist)
They’ve been working as a tag team since Hitorie’s 1st major album WONDER & WONDER, it’s Hitorie’s frontman wowaka and the artist Tetsuya Nagato. Of course the symbolic design of their new album “aisolate” too, and all their past MVs, from the full size ones to the short ones, so many Hitorie’s productions have been directed by Nagato. This time we’re going to talk about the relationship between the musician and the art director, the process that goes in. What the CD is to the musician and to the art director. The threat of losing your product after. What it’s like to seek within. And as these two like to take walks to come up with ideas, we decided to have this interview with a “while walking” style.
“wowaka’s work is the type that goes into the depths and pulls something out”
(Nagato)
First I want to ask about how you met.
wowaka: Back on the jacket of W&W, when I had no idea on what to do for the artwork . I was thinking that there was something more I could do, different from the other 2 albums we had. That was when, my eyes fell upon Nagato’s work. Like THE BACK HORN’s albums and such, there was a lot of his work that I knew of.
Nagato: Are you talking about “Headphone Children?” (laughing)
wowaka: I have a vivid memory of seeing that album, back at the HMV in the central station of my hometown Kagoshima, when I was like 15 years old or so. I bought the CD and for a time it was all I would listen to but, on top of that memory I also just earnestly thought “This is so cool”. That’s why I got in touch with someone from that record company, and got his contact information.
Opposite, what was your impression of Hitorie, Nagato?
Nagato: I remember watching the MV for “Senseless Wonder” that Yasuhiko Shimizu shot, and that song is definitely a good one, I remember liking the how much of a big entrance it has.wowaka emits such craziness in that MV, and the major scene in Japan doesn’t have enough crazy music, does it? So I felt like maybe this could work well with me.
Was it you wanted something devious from the norm back then?
Nagato: Normal life is fundamentally full of going to and through things that are devious and things that aren’t. Like following your client’s request and properly providing, and going more into the depths and pulling something out,there’s two directions. Hitorie are the type of people who pull it out, they’re that type of music, that type of band, so I felt “This could be fun”.
wowaka: My image of an art director’s job had always been that someone proposes “I made something with this sort of feeling, here’s what came out. Can you please make something cool to go with it?”. For them to then present “How is this sort of idea and could I go through with this sort of appearance?”. Yet when Nagato first came to the studio and we talked to him, I felt “This guy is completely out to get to know me, to excavate me“ (laughing). Like not from the front or the sides, but like from behind, he goes after you. Yet such is just what I hold important, l really really felt that we’re alike in that sense. It’s hard to express exactly what it was with words but. Yet on the subject as to what it is I wanted to do, or, what it is I needed to do, I absolutely felt that “If I do this something amazing might happen”. That was the main reason why I wanted to work with him.
“Maybe we’re alike in that way, that we both like ourself”
(wowaka)
What do you find appealing about each other?
wowaka: Nagato actually loves himself. And, I think that maybe we’re the same in that sense (laughing).
Nagato: Can you not just put me together with you? (laughing). Yet still, huh, maybe that is true. That also could be why, even before I made the jacket or heard the songs of “ai/SOlate”, I had been in a world of prayers. Because that mark itself becomes the words “Reach out!” for Hitorie itself. Like the human form of the band name, it’s saying “Hitori he”, right? Before I knew it, it became a double structure of an artwork and something that could reach out, “towards that one person”.
There was no need to say it, your strong desires and feelings had just connected from the start?
Nagato: There’s those sort of times. Where I want to make the jacket into something that doesn’t even need the band’s name on it, that it’s just easy to understand. I think that out of all the CD jackets I’ve designed, that type is the best. Once a band becomes able to express like that, I think that makes for a really good relationship with them. Once we can keep getting into “my favorite state”, then we get on a roll. That sort of self-indulgence is, like what you said before, it might mean that “I like myself” (laughing).
Is there something that differentiates you from other artists?
Nagato: I’m not sure if I could explain that with words (laughing). Things always turn out different, people are different after all. It’s not as if I purposefully decide “I think this is how this band is.” and make it based on that.There’s times when I listen to the hell out of the music to design, or there’s even times when I design without listening, it’s a mysterious process (laughing). If I don’t need to listen to create, then I just create. This time too was also probably just from me imagining that “This sort of thing might work?”.
wowaka: I mean after we talked once, he was already….
Nagato: Well, it hit me (laughing). At first I saw the image of bones and books and hands, shaping out into the symbol of “Hitorie”, I thought that I would make it out into a shape easy to understand this time…. Yet that didn’t have anything to do with the songs, did it.
What do you mean?
Nagato: Since we’ve been working together for so long, I could also consider the timing of this album. That if I vented out all the feelings that wanted to be put into motion, what would happen in the production company, to the members and the makers? I think about that a lot. Because I feel that if I throw something out there and it gets reactions, that makes it so much better.
In hopes that your designs will be used for something, I see. By the way, wowaka, has there been any works that you feel are a milestone for you, since you’ve worked with Nagato?
wowaka: At the time of WONDER and WONDER, I was truly desperate for something that could put my feelings into shape. I wanted to make something that would in anyway synchronize with me, that could maybe even take me further. That was when I met Nagato. I had begged him, and I was willing to passively accept whatever he gave me. But then after that album, I went to Aso to go hang out with him.
Nagato: I was living in Aso at the time, and I asked wowaka to come over, since he’s from Kagoshima (*Both are on Kyushu island). There’s a place that’s not a giant crater? but it’s off the beaten path where no one goes. There’s gas coming out and it feels like hell, so we went there together. I absolutely wanted to show that place to wowaka.
wowaka: We talked there, then went to Nagato’s house and watched a bonfire (laughing), as we talked for about 5 to 6 hours. I even got friendly with Nagato’s kids, and in a way I think that, I felt like my own person then and, I got a real sense of who Nagato is.
Was there any part of your heart that opened up then?
wowaka: There was. When I first started writing music, it was closed. Yet from going to Aso, and then getting into photography. Instead of passively, I was able to confidently suggest “Could we do something with my photographs for the next album?”. That’s why I think that might have been one milestone.
“A good jacket is one that leaves an impression, even if you don’t know the title”
(Nagato)
What do you think a CD jacket is, besides like the entrance into the product?
Nagato: Isn’t it about memory? If one can remember it. That’s why I aim to make mine symbolic. For example, even if someone doesn’t know the name of the song or the album, most people know that “That one with the cow” is Pink Floyd’s “Atom Heart Mother”. I think that is really good. Like even “ai/SOlate” is good as something like “pink and human-shaped and edgy”.
“ai/SOlate” has Hitorie’s various elements spread out over each and every song, it feels like there’s various tricks in all of them. Even in there is wowaka’s self-cover of “Unknown Mother Goose”, which tells the story of his expressions, from his Vocaloid-P days to the band’s now. It’s like you shoved your everything into it.
wowaka: I was someone who wrote music all alone originally right. So why did I detach from that life, and start to sing with my own voice and write music with other people? What did I do, did the band do, for these past five years? In taking all those questions into consideration, I wondered, what could I say? In that way, it is true that I thought to say everything with that one song. It’s a self-centered song, but at the same time it’s because I wanted to explain that “This is how it is”. But then it’s also a song that expresses my will and what I’m going to do going forward.
How have you been watching over wowaka’s evolution, Nagato?
Nagato: I see that he’s trying his hand at everything, he’s better at communicating than before, and of course his craftsmanship is going up in levels, I feel like it’s getting easy for him(laughing), but maybe that isn’t the case?
wowaka: Hmm, but it’s not easy (laughing). I’ve worked with this band through hardship, and, when I think about what has changed the most about me since, it’s that I’ve now realized that “In the end we’re all human. It was right before we made the album “IKI” last year that I realized. Before then I was someone who put barriers up and feared the concept of other people. Yet after getting together with a band, and talking with people like my bandmates and Nagato, I found that at one second they weren’t just “something distant and unusual” anymore.
When you became more assertive towards your relationships with people, did you start to feel like you lost yourself and your past motives?
wowaka: Even then still, I think that as long as I live I’ll never be able to forget about my sense that I’m being blocked off by the world. That’s the part of me that’s right at my core, and as long as I’ve lived my life as this sort of person, I’m at the level where I can’t forget nor remember about it.
On the other hand, Nagato, in doing work with artists, do you feel like there’s a lot of people like that?
Nagato: Everyone is twisted. That is absolute (laughing). My job is to show off the twisted stuff isn’t it?
That could certainly be true. I’m asking about what you said earlier now but, what was the reason that this jacket was made with the feeling “I want to put this into motion”.
Nagato: We wanted to shoot a strong shot, to light a beacon to signal our choice of war. I’m not sure if I’m using the right words but, you never know if you’ll always be able to keep challenging the same stage forever. That’s why this album’s artwork is a “flag”, the image that you’re starting a fight. That’s how much he’s clogged up or, it’s time he moved forward or, that’s what we talked about. That’s when we got to this idea.
wowaka, do you remember what your first impression of it was?
wowaka: “Strong!” it was. Most of the time the art doesn’t change from the draft. And whenever he shows it to me, I think that it completely resembles “me” but, it’s also something that I could never produce myself, that’s what always hits me.There’s an incongruousness and this sense that my imagination can’t keep up. Yet then when I sincerely look at it, I feel “No, it’s definitely me”. That sort of balancing might also be what’s important in artwork.
Is there something more you might want to see out of each other’s creativity in the future?
Nagato: I might not want anything (laughing). I’m nothing if I don’t just bring out the music package after all.
wowaka: For art besides music, I, from the start I don’t care about anyone’s work besides Tetsuya Nagato’s. I’ve seen a lot of things and felt a lot, but by now I think that this is the best (laughing).
Nagato: Me too, I think that the way we’re doing it is the best. Making music selfishly and, and striking out selfishly, I think that yield the best results.
Like even for people with a lot of talent, if they get fed up with it then it’s over huh.
Nagato: Isn’t it over when they become unable to create anymore? Yet when you‘re greedy, then it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you’ll do it right? (laughing) But sometimes as you go on, you start to feel “I can’t do this anymore”. Yet that’s just why, I think living on from then is important.
wowaka: Exactly.
Nagato: (Laughing). Also I think that, someone who doesn’t compare themselves to others and lives on in the moment, they can become something.
By the way, Nagato up until now you had been doing all of the art direction alone but, recently you’ve been sort of splitting the work. You’ve starting shifting over to also involving a variety of other people too. That’s how it seems with all the MVs and artwork this time but..
Nagato: That was because I had Hitorie’s will, that “This is a battle”. Even if we have to use everything we got, what would it take to win? Or, even when we’re running low on budget, what tools could we use? After considering, it sort of became an all-out-war, we got everyone involved. I called up everyone who had worked with them before and asked “Hitorie are starting a new phase, please help!”
So that’s how the MV project for “ai/SOlate” was started.
Nagato: It really feels ominous to me. Just because you make good music, doesn’t mean it will sell, after all.
So there’s also a sort of warning involved?
Nagato: The world has became a place where you can listen to music for free, and I’m still designing CDs when there might not even be physical CDs in the future. What will happen then, how will musicians and creators eat? I shouldn’t be severe but. Musicians sometimes think “Am I really still doing this?”, I think this too. Yet we can’t let it bring us down, we have to go up. We have to keep driving the stake into the ground if we want to go up. We’re not supposed to survive. Because the means of communication change with the generations.
wowaka’s treasured item:
Headphones Master & Dynamic MH40
They have a rustic design, and then the sound quality is good. They’re like all-around headphones. I mostly use these for listening, like when I’m making music in that severe environment. But even through all the monitoring, they always give me a nice sound. They‘re high resolution, but not too high. They give you a taste. That balance is just right for me, and also they look good.
Tetsuya Nagato’s treasured item:
iPhone
I use it alll the time. To take pictures, to post them on Instagram. I do most of my info gathering on there too. I also read e-books. It’s hard to read papers with my old eyes so, hey I can zoom in.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind
Among them, I’m into this right now. A book called “Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind”. It’s fucking fantastic. Just, even from the first story. And this author’s new book hasn’t been translated into Japanese yet but, it’s going to talk about what happens next (laughing).